Title: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: O.M.S. on January 31, 2008, 02:41:13 pm Does anybody knows about this material?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carcassonne-Advanced-Strategy-Guide_W0QQitemZ200196348211QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2531QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Gantry on January 31, 2008, 02:53:53 pm "30 Hints & Tips to Win Every Game"
Every game? :bs Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on January 31, 2008, 03:04:17 pm "30 Hints & Tips to Win Every Game"
Every game? ;l4 Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on January 31, 2008, 03:10:50 pm Sorry, couldn't resist.
Seriously, though, never heard of it. Sounds suspicious, anyway. Why PowerPoint? Not the best way to communicate detailed information. But I'd be curious to know what was in it… Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on January 31, 2008, 03:19:57 pm You could always save your money and visit here for your tips :)
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Wishmaster on January 31, 2008, 03:26:21 pm Well, clearly it's not official and looks Home made. The disc shown is CD-R. And CD cover 'art' looks like it's been done in Publisher or similar. My advice would be to avoid like the plague and be much happier for the guides and advice available here.
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: O.M.S. on January 31, 2008, 03:33:36 pm "30 Hints & Tips to Win Every Game" Every game? :bs But illustrated ;) (I hope in colours) Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Scott on January 31, 2008, 08:02:05 pm Wow, just.... wow....
The guy seems to be unaware that PowerPoint files can be compiled to run without having PowerPoint installed. So you're getting a (probably unprotected) PPT file with between 32 and 35 slides. The only saving grace is that shipping is built into the cost of the item I'm sure we could easily produce our own Advanced Strategy Guide right here and make it available for free. Maybe as part of the user content that Matt was talking about for future versions of the CAR? Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Tobias on January 31, 2008, 10:40:45 pm I already win every game :a4
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Gantry on February 01, 2008, 02:14:57 am I'm sure we could easily produce our own Advanced Strategy Guide right here and make it available for free. Maybe as part of the user content that Matt was talking about for future versions of the CAR? I know it's a little hard to find (improving this will be part of our site updates), but we already have a pretty darn good strategy guide in our articles section on the home page: clicky (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=4&id=18&Itemid=38) Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on February 01, 2008, 02:41:39 am And a very good startegy guide it is too. I like David's work. Makes for some interesting reading.
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 02:56:27 am I'm sure we could easily produce our own Advanced Strategy Guide right here and make it available for free. Maybe as part of the user content that Matt was talking about for future versions of the CAR? That's exactly the sort of thing the expanded CAR should include… We'll have to talk to David about including it.Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: O.M.S. on February 01, 2008, 03:46:54 am We'll have to talk to David about including it. Bingooooo ;DTitle: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Novelty on February 01, 2008, 04:33:36 am Won't that make the CAR even bigger?
Also, it's something I'd like to read once maybe, but not to have handy in a game as a reference guide like the CAR. I'd prefer if it were a separate document, but updated in the same manner as the CAR. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 06:22:13 am Won't that make the CAR even bigger? I thought about that, but multiple documents would be a pain.Also, it's something I'd like to read once maybe, but not to have handy in a game as a reference guide like the CAR. I'd prefer if it were a separate document, but updated in the same manner as the CAR. My view is that the Incorporated/Depreciated section should come out of the CAR and moved to the FAQ. It's too academic. That would make some space… But I also think that the CAR would work well with a variety of things supplementing the rules. A strategy section would make it more rounded, just as a guide to setting up would. Also, think of the Introduction I added last time—it won't be read often, but it's useful to have there. I wouldn't want too much strategy in there, but some would be a good thing… Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: O.M.S. on February 01, 2008, 06:35:33 am The Bible has a several chapters and two parts (The Old Testament and The New Testament), which (especially parts) can be printed (studied ...) separately.
Why not Harper's bible (of Carcassonne)? :) Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on February 01, 2008, 06:40:43 am As Matt already knows, I too would like to see more content in CAR, but the fact is that it is already too large for some websites and some of the additions suggested would actually deviate from CAR's intended purpose (which is a translation of the official 3rd edition rules). I do like the idea of a companion volume, but this needs to be discussed a bit first.
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Novelty on February 01, 2008, 06:44:27 am The bible is static. No new stuff is being added to it (that I know of). Carcassonne is different. The rules change (get expanded, etc.) every so often and thus, everything requires an update.
I'd suggest a maximum of no more than 2 pages of strategy for beginners (aka "Carcassonne for Dummies"?) in there to round out the CAR (if that's a must), because obviously, the strategy depends very strongly on which tiles are in play, and may also change in the future when new expansions are added. I'd much prefer if the CAR is restricted to the rules and that the Strategy section be a separate document altogether. Perhaps OMS's idea could still be utilised - the Harper Bible could have the CAR as Book 1, the Strategy guide as Book 2, etc. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 07:34:26 am Not wishing to keep up the Bible comparison (it's a little irreverent and accords me a dubious position), I will just add that the both parts of the Bible are (almost) always published together.
One thing at the back of my mind as we discuss expanding the CAR (another one of those multi-thread topics which are popular at the moment) is that it should become a 'guide', rather than merely a set of rules. Strategy, variants, house rules and other user-created material seems to me to be part of the 'Completely Annotated' part—I suppose you could say that the footnotes provide abstract rules clarifications, while strategy would provide practical ways of applying the rules, and things like house rules would provide practical ways of adapting the rules. So although I see the CAR developing maybe three sections—rules, user, and appendices (stuff like the tile reference) I don't see these parts as being entirely separate. All of them add depth to the rules. A issue I see arising with splitting these things into multiple files is content quantity and quality. As a supplement to the current CAR, we might choose to include simply the best strategy, the most popular variants, and so on, and it might take up only a few pages. As a separate document, my feeling is that there would be a lot of temptation to add more content, perhaps with a view to being 'comprehensive', and that might lower the overall standards. The website here and the Variant Registry might serve that purpose better. One other issue is that I think the actual circulation of a second document would be lower. Incorporating the best user material into the CAR would be the best way to have it reach the most people, because people download the CAR when it is updated. A second document would have to be downloaded separately—would involve a separate act of volition on the part of the user—and that would automatically decrease circulation. But the same user who wouldn't download a separate document might well find themselves browsing the additional material in the file they did download… So, my suggestion would be to expand the CAR to encompass this sort of material, even if the hardcore among us would pass over some/most/all of it. If and when that material itself expands to warrant a second volume, we can split it off then. But to start out trying to make a second volume from scratch just doesn't seem the best way forward to me, in any sense. Finally, I want to mention one other thing which has occurred to me through the Bible comparison—my relation to the CAR. Obviously, it's my baby, and I'm protective of it. The contributions of the people on this forum and on BGG have helped enormously in making it what it is, but I still (naturally) reserve the right to reject suggestions which don't fit into my vision for it—for example, corrections to the text of rules which I think should be footnotes. However, saying that all of the things being discussed here should be kept within the CAR in no way means in any way that I want to receive credit for them. My role, should the CAR be expanded in this way, would be that of an editor: maintaining an overview, a vision, and keeping the text up-to-date. I'd be taking a step back, and that's fine by me. I'm thrilled at the idea of more user content, because it will make the CAR stronger, which is the most important thing as far as I'm concerned. But I also think that including it in the current document is the best way to introduce people… Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: O.M.S. on February 01, 2008, 07:38:12 am The bible is static. No new stuff is being added to it (that I know of). Carcassonne is different. The rules change (get expanded, etc.) every so often and thus, everything requires an update. I think that Bible was 2000 years ago (very approximatey) different too, several upgrades or updates, some expansion; something was incorporated something depreciated.What will be in 2000 years with Harper's bible. Will it be static or dynamic? If somebody is who will be able to stated :a2 Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on February 01, 2008, 08:22:06 am I think that Bible was 2000 years ago (very approximatey) different too, several upgrades or updates, some expansion; something was incorporated something depreciated. Not wishing to keep up the Bible comparison (it's a little irreverent and accords me a dubious position), I will just add that the both parts of the Bible are (almost) always published together. Firstly, (and you knew it would have be me, Matt ;)) we're all entitled to our Bible opinions, but we're not here to talk about our religious viewpoints (you can email me if you want to discuss religious opinions, lol ;))! We're here to talk about the wonderful game of Carcassonne and the future of CAR ;) ;D Quote One other issue is that I think the actual circulation of a second document would be lower. Incorporating the best user material into the CAR would be the best way to have it reach the most people, because people download the CAR when it is updated. A second document would have to be downloaded separately—would involve a separate act of volition on the part of the user—and that would automatically decrease circulation. But the same user who wouldn't download a separate document might well find themselves browsing the additional material in the file they did download… This is a valid point, Matt, and I have to agree with you. I prefer the idea of working them in with CAR. Quote As a supplement to the current CAR, we might choose to include simply the best strategy, the most popular variants, and so on, and it might take up only a few pages. As a separate document, my feeling is that there would be a lot of temptation to add more content, perhaps with a view to being 'comprehensive', and that might lower the overall standards. When I was thinking about a variants guide, it soon became a millstone with deciding what variants to include. There are so many!!! My feeling was to only include those which do not require a great deal of setup, play really well and are just plain good! This is the same with a strategy guide (the obvious one being David Peterson's). The reason for this topic now is why I am not persuing a seperate guide, but rather offer my assistance for the CAR and CC where I can. Quote The website here and the Variant Registry might serve that purpose better. I strongly agree. The more unusual variants are best suited to the Variant Registry. Quote Finally, I want to mention one other thing which has occurred to me through the Bible comparison—my relation to the CAR. Obviously, it's my baby, and I'm protective of it. This is a VERY important point. It is Matt's work, and he should be in full control of that document. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 08:47:48 am I think that Bible was 2000 years ago (very approximatey) different too, several upgrades or updates, some expansion; something was incorporated something depreciated. Not wishing to keep up the Bible comparison (it's a little irreverent and accords me a dubious position), I will just add that the both parts of the Bible are (almost) always published together. Firstly, (and you knew it would have be me, Matt ;)) we're all entitled to our Bible opinions, but we're not here to talk about our religious viewpoints (you can email me if you want to discuss religious opinions, lol ;))! We're here to talk about the wonderful game of Carcassonne and the future of CAR ;) ;D Finally, I want to mention one other thing which has occurred to me through the Bible comparison—my relation to the CAR. Obviously, it's my baby, and I'm protective of it. This is a VERY important point. It is Matt's work, and he should be in full contol of that document. Hint to everyone involved: I would prefer it if we could nip the whole 'Harper's Bible' in the bud right now… And if that leaves everyone—except Joff—a little unsure as to my religious views, then all is as it should be. I completely agree that this isn't the place for such discussions. Moving right along… Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 09:13:56 am Thanks for your comments, Joff. I totally understand the difficulty in compiling a variant's guide. That's partly why the current CAR only contain the 'official' selection—because I didn't have to select anything at all! (I mean, they could be included on a completely different basis).
And although it's true that the CAR is my document, I'm trying to actively involve people in it in a way that hasn't been the case before. That's why I'm pleased to be having this discussion about what everybody wants, and where everyone sees it going. One side effect of the CarcassonneCentral site is that there is a much more vocal community than before. And that's a good thing. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on February 01, 2008, 10:05:10 am ...but we're not here to talk about our religious viewpoints (you can email me if you want to discuss religious opinions, lol ;))! By the way everyone, that actually wasn't a 'green light' to start emailing me lots of opinions :) ;) ;D I hope I indicated that I thought the comparison was inappropriate—it doesn't really work as an analogy, and is rather tasteless as well… I understood what you meant, Matt. There is no misunderstanding from me :) Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Scott on February 01, 2008, 10:59:31 am David's strategy guide is good stuff; I'd never seen it before. The only thing that could be considered to need improvement is expanding the focus to include more/all of the expansions.
I agree with Matt regarding the Incorporated/Deprecated guide being too academic. My own personal feeling is that it's not really relevant, because the preceding text of the rules for each expansion contains everything already. A strategy guide would be a good replacement for it. Variants, on the other hand, are numerous enough that we could probably have more than one volume of them if we included every single one. Trying to select the "best" ones would be a tough job. I think the best way to proceed with this is carry on with the individual docs for individual variants. They can always be combined later on, or maybe not. Maybe they stay separate and get attached to their respective entry in the Variant Registry. Matt could include a blurb in the CAR pointing people there to let them know what is available. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 01, 2008, 01:22:20 pm Sounds like a good plan, Scott.
Maybe "best" wasn't the, er, best word; perhaps I should have said something like 'most popular among CC members' or something like that. We can keep kicking the ball around for a bit yet, as I need to get the revised CAR to a certain point before we need to make a final decision. Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Joff on February 01, 2008, 01:50:58 pm Perhaps the 'best' variants are the ones that don't require complicated setups (eg: making extra tiles (I am thinking specifically about Frédéric Renaud’s Families, which is a fantastic idea, and one of the 'best', but requires extra tiles making to work)). Ones that utilise the already existing game, perhaps with an extra follower, seem easier to implement.
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Novelty on February 01, 2008, 07:03:37 pm Perhaps the 'best' variants are the ones that don't require complicated setups (eg: making extra tiles (I am thinking specifically about Frédéric Renaud’s Families, which is a fantastic idea, and one of the 'best', but requires extra tiles making to work)). Ones that utilise the already existing game, perhaps with an extra follower, seem easier to implement. I'd second that.Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: Scott on February 01, 2008, 08:47:06 pm I like the idea of including variants that are the most accessible to everyone (ie. don't require making tiles). There are some really neat looking fan-made expansions out there, but making tiles isn't for everyone.
Title: Re: Carcassonne Advanced Strategy Guide Post by: mjharper on February 02, 2008, 02:38:45 am None of the variants currently included in the CAR require making tiles ;)
Seriously, though, that's a good way of filtering variants for inclusion. |