|
Title: Abbey Tiles at the end of the game Post by: dwhitworth on January 14, 2008, 12:04:22 am Tonight we reached the end of a game and the player next in turn after the last tile was drawn had an Abbey tile left, and a place it could be played to her advantage. She wanted to play it as the "last tile" of the game. There was disagreement about whether an Abbey tile can be the "last land tile" as per the rules, or whether the game must end when the last regular tile is played.
We studied the rules sheets and Matt's consolidated rules and can find no definite ruling on this. One opinion says that the "last tile" means the last tile form the bag/tower/box. The other opinion says (correctly) that the rules don't actually say this they just talk of the last tile - and the Abbey tile is . . well, . . a tile. The first opinion responds that the Abbey and Mayors rules say the Abbey can be played "instead of drawing a tile" and after the last tile is drawn there is nothing to draw it "instead of". The second opinion responds "humbug" (or something a little stronger . . :) We have found that players tend to hold on to the Abbey in the hope that they will draw a needed tile to fill a hole, and only have to use the Abbey as a last resort. So at the end of the game this can be a big deal. The majority verdict of the house-rule-judges here was that the Abbey tile can be so played because the rules do not specifically forbid it and if they were written vaguely and not tightened when Abbeys and Mayors was playtested (??) then we can interpret them in the way most advantageous for players. (OK! so isn't playing "Lawyers of Carcassone" after each game part of the fun . . . ? ) If our honorable judges opinion is supported one could concievably have a "last round" of Abbey tile placements after all other tiles have been drawn if everyone holds on to their Abbeys until the end. That might be OK though. Are we missing something in the rules or is this another point worth getting an official ruling on? D Title: Re: Abbey Tiles at the end of the game Post by: mjharper on January 14, 2008, 03:22:54 am Definitely worth getting a ruling on. In the past, the last tile to be played was always the last tile to be drawn, but that isn't necessarily the case any more.
You probably hit the nail on the head when you say that the Abbey can be used 'instead of a tile'. It strikes me as a similar case to this FAQ: http://homepage.mac.com/mjharper/carc/page3/files/12ca582e2b78d1b90dfdb27b3306513a-65.html. I'd probably go with the argument that the Abbey can't be used. This would also clear up possible ambiguous situations. Imagine that you have 4 players: player A draws the last tile and has an Abbey in stock; players B and D also have a Abbey, but player C doesn't. Under the usual rules (and the argument that the Abbey can't be used after the last tile has been drawn) then play stops with player A. But if we agree that the Abbey can be used, then player A draws and places the last tile, and then it's player B's turn. S/he places the Abbey—but what now? The next player in the row doesn't have an Abbey. So does play stop now, with player B? In that case, players D and A are going to be annoyed because they both have Abbeys which can't be used. On the other hand, if player C is skipped then s/he is going to be understandably annoyed—player A will have had two more tile placements than player C. So, arguing that the Abbey is 'just a tile' is going to lead to all sorts of confrontations at the end of the game. Whereas saying that it must be used 'instead' of a tile leaves the familiar mechanic in place, and the end of the game is clearly marked. On the other hand, I've only just woken up, and my reasoning might be a little muddy… Title: Re: Abbey Tiles at the end of the game Post by: Joff on January 14, 2008, 05:43:12 am I'd agree with Matt. It seems inconcievable to be able to play an 'abbey tile' once the regular tiles have been exhausted.
Title: Re: Abbey Tiles at the end of the game Post by: Scott on January 14, 2008, 08:46:58 pm I will also support the unofficial ruling that Abbey tiles cannot be played when the last tile from the bag/tower/box has been played. Part of the strategy of Abbey & Mayor is (or should be) deciding when to play your Abbey. Allowing people to play their Abbey at the end detracts from that.
Lawyers of Carcassonne is definitely my least favorite expansion. Title: Re: Abbey Tiles at the end of the game Post by: dwhitworth on January 14, 2008, 09:53:59 pm Thanks for the feedback folks.
We had not considered Matt's A,B,C,D scenario and that does seem to change the picture quite a bit. The lawyers won't like it, but I expect we will change our house rules to disallow this use of Abbey tiles - at least until there is an official ruling. Fortunately they don't take themselves to seriously ;D D |