Carcassonne Central

Thanks to William Springer from BoardGameGeek for a scan of these rules. The original scan can be found here (http://www.worldofcatan.com/downloads/carc_tunnel_rules.jpeg). BGG wouldn't let him upload them, but we can get a translation done and upload it then. Here is a text version of the rules in German:


From what I can translate using Google translator, this roughly means:

Preparation
The four tiles are mixed with the base game tiles. Each player takes the chips of his color (each player receives two).

Standard Rules
Play using the rules for the base game. The supplementary rules are below:

Show Tunnel Exits using Chips
During a player's turn, that player may place [a Chip, in addition to placing a follower,] on an unoccupied tunnel opening (including other tiles than that just placed).

At a later point during the game, a player may place a second chip on a vacant tunnel opening. Thus a road is defined by the tunnel: the first chip marks the tunnel entrance, the other chip the tunnel exit. The road is now completed and should be scored accordingly. [I suppose that you count the shortest path between the two tunnels as the road.]

The Princess and the Dragon
Cards from expansions such as the Princess and the Dragon, which have a tunnel, can be used in conjunction with the Spielebox tunnel expansion. The openings [of P&D tunnels] can also be marked with chips. In this case, [roads may not always connect to one of the tunnel openings].


Okay, that was my jab at a translation. I tried to remember to correct the German up top since I had a few errors, but some may still remain. Check the original scan if I missed any. The rules leave a lot to question, especially with scoring and incomplete tunnels, so I Matt may have a lot of emailing to do before the next CAR is released (which I hope is VERY VERY soon). Anyway, discuss, debate, re-translate, enjoy. Most of us will be getting this expansion this week sometime, assuming we ordered it.  ;D

heh, I was in the process of Google translating this as well, guess I don't need to now. :-)

Well I wouldn't mind a second attempt at the translation, if nothing else than to check for errors. The rules seemed to leave out some stuff so double checking isn't a bad idea. If Matt is around, he can translate.

Sorry for the double post, but Aldaron at BGG posted his own, much more brief translation. He translated the last part as tunnels that don't have a road at one end (i.e., from P&D) are counted as incomplete, which I guess only really effects the Robber Baron since no followers are placed on the tunnel-roads nor entrances. It still doesn't not what happens if the other end of a tunnel is never claimed. I'm guessing the tunnel is not counted at all, then.

So do all roads end at the tunnels when playing with this expansion?  I'm confused.

Just a few minor disagreements with some interpretations.


Wouldn't you just ignore any 'in between' tiles, only include tiles where the road is actually shown?


I assumed that the road is considered incomplete, not the tunnel itself. I also assume that a road with an unlinked tunnel and an inn would score 0 (as the road is not complete), but that's just my opinion.


I think the roads continue through the tunnels, (but you have to select the entrance and exit). But I'm sure we're all equally confused.

I disagree entirely with your observations. The rules make it sound like Tunnels are completely independent of any roads attached to the tunnel entrances. From what I translated, I felt that the Tunnels end the road and start a new road underground, ending at the tunnel's other opening. Thus issues with Inns and whatnot are inconsequential. All roads end at tunnel entrances and all tunnels end when they return from underground. I'm guessing that this can cause extremely long roads that can sometimes become incomplete and score nothing, hence their appeal. Kind of like Long Routes on Ticket to Ride Europe: lots of points if you complete them, not quite so if you don't (or in TtR case, negative points). That's just my interpretation. Someone who reads German should probably confirm.

That's what I seem to understand as well and therein is where the confusion lies.  It seems to negate some of the previously published rules and to create a new one in its place.

This was the question I'm asking.  Do roads end at tunnel entrances only when playing with this expansion, or even when not playing with this expansion?  It would shake up gameplay in a major way if it was retconned to previous expansions (and I've no idea how fan-made expansions with tunnels will behave with this new rule).

Edit: I've put up the rules scan at Carc Central (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/images/download/carc_tunnel_rules.jpg) as well.  Thanks again for the scans, WmSpringer.

Actually, I forgot that Abbey & Mayor also has a tunnel, and perhaps a few others. They have those short one-tile road tunnels. The example in the rule specifically mentioned Princess & Dragon, but it did imply directly that other expansions may be affected as well. I'm guessing that tiles that show the old-style tunnels (A&M) do not fall into this category and only magic portals are affected, but it really isn't that clear. Someone needs to get an email off to Spielbox right away to answer these questions, but they haven't even replied to my last email so I'm not getting my hopes up.

Just arrived in the post today :). Here goes with my translation:

----------

Preparation

The four tiles are mixed with those of the basic game. Every player receives the tokens corresponding to his or her colour. In games of two, each player may use two sets of tokens.

Basic Rules

All the rules of the basic game are valid, with the addition of the following.

Mark Tunnels with Tokens

During their turn, a player may place one of his or her tunnel tokens on any currently unoccupied tunnel entrance. Tunnel tokens may be placed on the tile currently being placed.

If a players has already placed one of his or her tunnel tokens, the other token may be placed on another unoccupied tunnel entrance during a later turn. By doing so, the road has being defined: one token marks the tunnel entrance, the other marks the exit. If this leads to a completed road, it should be scored appropriately.

Princess and Dragon

Tiles from other expansions, such as Princess and Dragon, which also depict tunnels can also be used with the rules for the Spielbox Tunnel Expansion; the entrances can also be marked with tokens. In this case the road leading through the tunnel does not count as continuous, contrary to the usual rules.

----------

For what it's worth, I take it that the new expansion merely expands on the old tunnel concept. That is, roads run through tunnels in the same way, only you have to specify exactly where a tunnel begins and ends. I do not think that a tunnel marks the beginning or end of a road, nor that the tunnel between tokens is a new road. I take this to be the case because otherwise the sentence about 'if a road is completed in this way...' would make no sense: placing a second token would always complete the tunnel. Clearly this isn't the case.

I also think that the number of tiles between the tokens is irrelevant. Otherwise it would be far to easy, late in the game, to generate a (e.g.) 48 tile road, and there would be endless debates about the shortest route. I think it's clear enough that only visible segments of road are counted, although this point needs to be clarified.

Furthermore, I'm sure that 'occupied' in this sense only refers to the tile entrance itself, independent of any thieves which may occupy the road.

So it means that roads "end" in the tunnels so you create a completable road if you connect two tunnels and close the other (normal road) ends the normal way. (I'm not saying that you can't have more than 1 tunnel on the road)
Scoring would then be as usual, number of tiles the road is on.

That's what I think, yes.

Thanks for the translations and the interpretation Matt.  I like your interpretation better and it makes better sense.  It also doesn't retcon the existing tunnels which is what I prefer :)

I think translation makes sense.  So the tunnel expansion has 10 tunnels on them, plus the 2 tunnel entrances from Princess and Dragon which makes a total of 12 tunnel openings and there are 12 tunnel chits.  I'd say any tunnels from any other expansion are unaffected.

If you are playing with anything less than 6 people, then you are going to have roads that will be impossible to finish.  That's kind of a bummer.  Although, you could even distribute the tiles if you had 2 or 3 players.  And for a 4 or 5 player game, you could have the remaining tunnel chits available for anyone who has already used both of their tunnel chits.

It's 14 tunnel entrances, there's one in A&M. And we could assume that when no tokens are placed on the tunnels the roads are connected normally, the new as well as the old ones.

I think there's an interesting thing on this: you could use this concept to score other players road and then move a follower to CC. Well maybe not the best possibility but still.

And behold, this is why Google translator is not always the best option and why actual speakers of German are preferred. I too find Matt's rules better, although they still retcon the old tunnel rule by being able to claim the tunnel entrances. Also, I assume this means that Magic Portals are no longer considered tunnel entrances, which would be nice. I guess the main function of the tunnels are to steal/tie with other people's roads then by connecting them via tunnels (i.e., another offensive expansion).

Here is where I am confused...  Are they saying that if the red player has a follower on a road and the blue player adds a tunnel and places his blue tunnel chit (assuming that he places the second tunnel and chit later), do both blue and red score for the road?  Wouldn't that make the tunnel chits essentially followers then?  That can't be right...

No, I think the chits claim the tunnel, but not the road. I think you still need to have a robber on one end of the road to claim it. That way you can steal/tie other people's roads by jointly claiming it. The chits themselves just mark who owns the tunnel.

The only function of the chits is to connect two roads that both lead to a tunnel.  I'm not seeing anything(in the translation) that says that you have to own one of the roads to place a chit on a tunnel.  It also doesn't say that you have to place your second chit. So let's walk through a scenerio:

Red has a follower on a road.  One ends in a city the other end is unfinished.  Blue draws a tunnel tile and adds it to the end of the red's road and places a blue tunnel chit on it.  Blue decides not to play his second tunnel chit for the rest of the game which essentially locks red's piece on the road since it can't be completed.  Is that legal?

Although, continuing on the above example:  Red draws a tunnel tile and adds it to one of blue's unfinished roads.  Now blue has a trapped thief as well, although blue can decide to play his second chit on that tunnel which connects blue and red's roads together.  Assuming that red already played his tunnel chits, then any tunnel tile drawn for the rest of the game can only be best used to block an opponent's thief onto a road.  Is this how everyone else is understanding this as well?(http://gwommy.tripod.com/carcassonne/MeepleConfusedPurple.gif)

That's pretty much how I interpret it. Each player (except in a 2-player game) gets one tunnel, and the rest of the tunnels are used for blocking other players, who may or may not still have their own tunnel chits. As I said before, yet another aggressive expansion. Remember, though, there are only four tunnel tiles on the board, so they can't be used to block too many player's roads unless you first add on to their roads (add a road that connects another player's road to a tunnel), which could end up being counter-productive depending on where you are in the game.

5 including the one from P&D, and one more from A&M.  There's a lot more with the custom tiles!

Matt, Aldaron at BGG brought up a good point that you omitted the word "additionally" from the "Mark Tunnels with Tokens" stage. Do you interpret that you can mark tunnels AND place a follower or that you can only do one or the other?

You mean 'tiles may also be placed on the tile just placed' instead of just 'tiles may be placed...'?

Hmm, I didn't think that 'also' was necessary given the context, but it won't hurt to put it in. Likewise, I don't think it clarifies an interpretation of the rules.

I have no idea whether you can place a token and a follower, according to the rules given. I'd be inclined to think you can only perform one action, as that is usually the case in Carc, but on the other hand there may be a good argument that these tokens are part of the 'placement' stage and so independent of the deployment of followers. And I really don't think that 'also' affects this: all it means is that tokens may be placed on ANY open tunnel entrance.

One for HiG, I think...

I've sent the rules to one of my German friends on Facebook.  Hopefully he can come up with a yet another view for a comparison of translations.

Although, I was reading the translation from Google.  I don't know if everyone already assumed this or not, but I'm thinking that for the other tunnel tiles from the Princess and the Dragon, that placing a tunnel chit on one of tunnels is optional and if a chit is not placed, then the tunnel on the P&D tile is treated like normal where it is the same road.  I'd also say that if that road gets comleted before a tunnel chit is placed, then a tunnel chit shouldn't be allowed to be placed on either of the tunnel entrances.

I guess the biggest question is still whether or not a follower and chit can played in the same turn, or if you can play only a tunnel chit?  And if you can play both at the same time, which one is played first, or can you choose which one to be played first?

Received my copy in the post last night, so am eagerly awaiting a definitive transaltion of the rules in this thread.




BTW The rest of the magazine looks fascinating, what a pity I can't read it  :'(
Are there any similar magazines available in English?

Not since Games Quarterly went out of business two years ago, and even that magazine was a scant comparison to Spielbox.

So let me see if I have this right...

Red has a follower on a road segment that contains 6 tiles the last of which is a tunnel.  The blue player claims the tunnel and the road eventually continues to the other "blue" tunnel on a road segment of 4 tiles.  However, there are no blue followers on either segment of the road.  10 points are scored for red?

That's how I understand it. It would be quite silly for Blue to do that, of course.

My copy arrived yesterday!

Here are the rules in Dutch:

"Spielbox 6 / 09 EDITION SPIELBOX SPIELBOX EDITION Carcassonne De Tunnel Carcassonne De Tunnel Voorbereiding: Voorbereiding: De vier tegels van de tunnel worden gemengd onder de overige tegels. De Vier tegels van de tunnel onder de overige been gemengd tegels. Elke speler ontvangt Elke speler ontvangt de 2 fiches van zijn eigen kleur (bij 2 spelers ontvang je de fiches van 2 kleuren). de 2 fiches van zijn kleur owned (bij 2 spelers ontvang je de kleuren van 2 fiches). Standaardregels: Standaardregels: De regels van het standaardspel blijven het zelfde. De regels van het het zelfde standaardspel blijven. Volgende regels worden toegevoegd. Volgende regels toegevoegd been. Een fiche op een tunneluitgang leggen: Een op een fiche tunneluitgang leggen: Tijdens zijn beurt mag een speler, als extra actie, een eigen fiche op een nog onbezette Tijdens zijn een speler beurt may, as an extra actie, een op een nog owned fiche onbezette tunneluitgang leggen (dit mag ook op de tegel die je net hebt aangelegd). tunneluitgang leggen (dit mag je ook op de tegel the net raises aangelegd). Wie al een fiche gelegd heeft, mag in een volgende beurt zijn 2 Like al een fiche gelegd heeft, mag zijn in een volgende beurt 2 de de fiche ook aanleggen op fiche aanleggen ook op dezelfde manier. dezelfde manier. Hierdoor loopt deze weg door als tunnel, het ene fiche is de ingang van de Hierdoor loopt deze weg door as a tunnel, het is de ene fiche ingang van de tunnel, het andere fiche is de uitgang. tunneling, het andere is de fiche uitgang. Als een weg hierdoor afgemaakt wordt, volgt er een As afgemaakt Hierdoor wordt een weg, he volgt een telling. telling. De Draak, de Fee en de Jonkvrouw: De Draak, de en de Jonkvrouw Fee: Tegels uit de uitbreiding Tiles uit de uitbreiding DE DRAAK DE DRAAK , , DE FEE EN DE JONKVROUW FEE DE DE DE Jonkvrouw waarop een tunnel staat afgebeeld, waarop een tunnel afgebeeld State, kunnen samen met de tegels uit de Spielbox-tunnel uitbreiding gebruikt worden. seeds gebruikt kunnen met de uit de tegels Spielbox tunnel uitbreiding been. De uiteinden De uiteinden kunnen ook met een fiche bedekt worden. kunnen ook met een been bedekt fiche. In dit geval loot de weg niet automatisch door deze In dit geval niet de weg automatically loot door deze tunnel. tunnel. Christwart Conrad Christwart Conrad Illustraties: Doris Matthäus Illustraties: Doris Matthäus Vertaling: Pieter Syroit – Vertaling: Pieter Syroit"

And its Google translation:

"Spielbox 6 / 09 EDITION Spielbox Spielbox EDITION Carcassonne Carcassonne The Tunnel The Tunnel Preparation: Preparation: The four tiles of the tunnel are mixed among the other tiles. The four tiles of the tunnel under the other leg mixed tiles. Each player receives 2 cards each player receives its own color (2 players receive the cards in 2 colors). 2 of the chips are color owned (with 2 players receive the colors of 2 chips). Standard Rules: Standard Rules: The rules of the game remain the same standard. The rules of the game remain the same standard. Following lines are added. Been added following lines. A chip to make a tunnel exit: an exit tunnel to lay a sheet: At its turn, a player, as a measure, one sheet at a still unoccupied own While a player may turn, as an additional measure, even owned one at a sheet unoccupied tunnel lay out (this may also be on the tile you just created). impose exit tunnel (that you can tile on the net raises built). Anyone who has placed a sheet, may in turn have a following 2 Like a sheet already placed, may be in a turn 2 the following form to also build sheet also establish the same way. same way. This road runs through the tunnel as the one sheet is the result of the entrance road that runs through a tunnel axis, it is one sheet from the tunnel, the other sheet is output. tunneling, the other is the output sheet. As a way this is completed, there follows an Axis finished result is a path, he follows a census. count. The Dragon, the Fee and the lady: The Dragon and the lady Fee: Roofing Tiles in the expansion of extension THE DRAGON THE DRAGON, THE FEE AND THE THE THE THE FEE maiden lady when a tunnel is given, which one tunnel appearing, can together with the tiles from the tunnel extension Spielbox used. seeds can be used with the tiles Spielbox bone tunnel enlargement. The ends The ends may also be covered with a sheet. can also be coated with a bone chip. In this case the loot this way does not automatically In this case the path automatically loot through this tunnel. tunnel. Christwart Conrad Conrad Christwart Illustrations: Doris Matthäus Illustrations: Doris Matthäus Translation: Peter Syroit - Translation: Pieter Syroit"

Here is John Sweeny's translation (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/455033 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/455033)):

"Tunnel expansion for Carcassonne Spielbox 6/09

Preparation
The four tiles are mixed with those of the basic game. Every player receives the Tunnel Tokens corresponding to their color. In two-player games each player may use two sets of tokens.

Basic Rules
All the rules of the basic game are used, with these additions:

Marking Tunnels with Tokens
During their turn, a player may place one of their Tunnel Tokens on any currently unoccupied tunnel entrance. A Tunnel Token may be placed on the tile currently being placed. This is in addition to placing a follower and takes place immediately after follower placement.

When the second Tunnel Token of a particular color is placed the tunnel has been defined: one token marks the tunnel entrance, the other marks the exit. A road which enters one or more tunnels is complete once all road segments are terminated and each relevant Tunnel is defined by a matching pair of Tunnel Tokens. When scoring a completed road which goes through a tunnel, if there are followers on more than one road segment then the normal rules apply for deciding who scores for the complete road, with all followers being considered to be on the same road.

Other Tunnel Tiles
Tiles from other expansions, such as Princess and Dragon, which also depict tunnels, can be used with these rules. If it is agreed to do so, then such roads are not considered to be continued on the same tile; instead the tunnel entrances are treated exactly the same as the tunnel entrances on the Tunnel expansion tiles."

That's interesting.  Where is the "This is in addition to placing a follower and takes place immediately after follower placement." translated from?  I don't see that in the original german text.

I'd say this is about the clearest I've seen it written so far. 

Well, if I were guess (or if I were writing the rules) I'd say that token placement is instead of "moving wood".  This will be a good issue to clear up!

Maybe John knows something we don't ;)

The rules are now on HiG's page at http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/232.0.html

It seems more comprehensive and includes the sentence "Die Regel, einen Gefolgsmann einzusetzen, bleibt unabhängig davon bestehen."  Does that means that tunnel chips are placed independently from meeples/followers?

The English rules will be published on the www.spielbox.de (http://www.spielbox.de) shortly. (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/455033 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/455033))

Great news that Spielbox will provide official English rules themselves.

Well, no English as yet, but French is now up:

Extension Tunnel (Spielbox 6/2009)
Version 1.1 v. 02.11.2009 (changements par rapport à la version du magasine en italique)
Préparation
Les quatre tuiles sont mélangées au jeu de base. Chaque joueur reçoit les deux jetons de sa
couleur (à deux, chacun peut prendre deux couleurs de jetons).
Règles standard
Les règles normales du jeu de base sont valables. Elles sont étendues comme suit.
Marquer une sortie de tunnel avec un jeton
Pendant son tour, un joueur peut en plus de ses actions normales poser un de ses jetons tunnel
sur n'importe quelle issue de tunnel encore libre (aussi sur une issue d'une tuile qu'il vient de
poser). Les règles de placement d'un pion restent applicables indépendamment.
Quand un tunnel est-il définit ?
Tant qu'aucun jeton ne se trouve sur une sortie de tunnel, la route est provisoirement coupée, sans
qu'elle ne soit considérée comme terminée. Même lorsqu'un jeton est placé, elle est encore
incomplète. C'est seulement lorsque le second jeton de la même couleur est placé sur une sortie
non encore occupée (de la même tuile ou de n'importe quelle autre) que l'entrée et la sortie du
tunnel sont définies. La route passe alors sous terre par le tunnel mais n'est pas achevée ! Comme
avec les règles de base, c'est par exemple un croisement qui en marque la fin.
La couleur du jeton ne joue de rôle que pour la répartition des trajets. Le tunnel est cependant
construit pour tous les joueurs, ce qui veut dire qu'un joueur peut faire son décompte avec une
route passant par un tunnel marqué de jetons d'une autre couleur. Dans un cas extrême, une route
peut emprunter plusieurs tunnels.
Décompte
Pour une route complète, on ne compte que les morceaux visibles du trajet.
Exemple: tuile avec porte de ville, tuile avec virage de route, tuile avec entrée de tunnel, autre tuile
avec entrée de tunnel, tuile avec route droite, tuile avec croisement donne au final 6 points (12
avec une auberge) pour celui qui la contrôle.
Après le décompte, les jetons de tunnel restent en place, afin que seuls cinq (lors de l'utilisation
d'autres tuiles tunnels) puissent être construits.
Demoiselle et Dragon
Les tuiles d'extensions comme Demoiselle et Dragon qui présentent un tunnel peuvent être
utilisées avec l'extension Tunnel de Spielbox; les sorties de tunnels peuvent aussi être marquées
d'un jeton. Dans ce cas, une route imprimée passant par un tunnel n'est pas décomptée malgré
les règles normales tant que la seconde issue du tunnel n'est pas indiquée par un jeton.

German to English translation
Rules
Preparation
The four cards are mixed into the standard of the game. Each player takes the chips of his color (in pairs, each may use three, three of two chip-color).
 
Standard Rules
The rules of the standard game. These rules are supplemented below.
 
Tunnel opening show with Chip
During his turn a player may additionally a tunnel of its chips on any unoccupied tunnel opening to place (even on the just -
by him) laid tiles. The rule, establish a retainer, will remain independent of it.
 
When an underground tunnel is defined?
As long as the tunnel entrance is located on a chip no tunnel, then broke the course of a road from being without it is finished. Although there at one tunnel chip is placed, it remains unfinished. Only when the 2 Tunnel chip of the same color on any unoccupied tunnel opening (of the same card or any other) is placed, the tunnel entrance and exit are defined. The road runs underground through the tunnel, but is not completed by the tunnel exit! As before it is completed, for example, through an intersection.
 
The color of the tunnel chips only plays a role in the pairwise assignment. The tunnel is built for the public, that a highwayman is a different color on a street that is partially tunneled, cheap. In extreme cases, a road can run several times in succession underground.
 
Rating
Of a completed road, only the visible sections of road are counted.
For example, cards with the main city, with street corner cards, cards with the tunnel entrance, tunnel exit, with different cards, cards with a straight road, crossing cards with a total of 6 (with Tavern 12) points for the highwayman.
Even after the evaluation of the tunnel remain chips are, so at most 5 (when paired with other cards with tunnel 6) tunnel can be built.
 
Princess and the Dragon
Cards from supplements such as Princess and the Dragon, which have a tunnel,
can be used in conjunction with the spielbox tunnel enlargement;
Thus, the openings can be covered with chips. In this case, a printed, then through the tunnel leading road against the usual
Usually without tunnel chips rather than continue.

OFFICIAL ENGLISH RULES


"Carcassonne: The Tunnel Expansion (spielbox 6/2009)

Preparation

The four land tiles are shuffled in with those from the basic game. Each player takes the
tunnel chips matching his color. (With two players, each uses three colors, and with three,
each takes two).


Tunnel Rules

All the standard rules are still valid. These rules are expanded as follows:
Deploying Chips on Tunnel Entrances
During his turn, a player may place one of his tunnel chips on any unoccupied tunnel
entrance (including one he just played that turn). This is in addition to placing a follower,
using the normal rules.

When is the Underground Tunnel Complete?

As long as there is no tunnel chip on the tunnel entrance, the road leading into that tunnel
breaks off without being completed. If a chip is later added to that tunnel entrance, the road
still remains incomplete. Only when a second chip of the same color is played on another
vacant tunnel entrance can the tunnel be completed (it can be on the same tunnel tile, or a
different one). The road continues from the other end of the tunnel, and is not automatically
completed! The road must be completed using the regular rules (e.g., by a crossing, etc.).
The colors of the tunnel chips is only used to link tunnel entrances in pairs. The tunnels,
however, are built for the public: i.e., a thief of a different color can still be placed on a road
that goes through a completed tunnel. In some cases, a road can run through several tunnels,
passing behind other roads underground.


Scoring

Only visible road segments are counted when a road is completed.
Example: A tile with a city gate, a tile with a curved road, a tunnel entrance, another tunnel
exit, a tile with a straight road, and a tile with a crossing would be worth a total of 6 points
(12 with a pub) for the thief.
After the road is scored, the tunnel chips remain on the tiles. So, at most 5 tunnels can be
built (6 if using tiles with tunnels from another expansion).


The Princess and the Dragon

Tiles from some expansions, like “The Princess and the Dragon,” also show tunnel
entrances, and can be used with the Tunnel expansion as well. These entrances can also be
marked with chips. In this case, a road leading by the tunnel is still valid, following the
rules above for continuing roads through tunnels."

Edit: The pdf version is here: http://www.spielbox-magazin.de/pdf/CCS_Tunnel_en.pdf (http://www.spielbox-magazin.de/pdf/CCS_Tunnel_en.pdf)

Finally, some clarity. These rules are much better than the printed (and translated) ones, but still leaves one question vague: can you place a follower AND a tunnel chip on the same turn? These rules imply you can but really don't use strong language reasserting it.

"This is in addition to placing a follower, using the normal rules."

I mean, honestly, this sounds like a bad translation of the original rather than a solid answer to the question. I'd like to see Matt's translation of this line from the German (extended) rules to see if he gets the same feel. If you can claim on the same turn, half the struggle for tunnels is done and part of the competitive nature of them is gone.

I'll take a closer look when I have a little more time, but as far as this line is concerned, the original German is a little stronger. It says something more like this (clumsy translation):

"The rule for placing a follower remains the same, independent of this."

I take it that 'independent' is stronger than 'addition'.

Good to see these extended rules, though. As far as the CAR is concerned, I think I'll prepare my own translation as usual, but taking into account the 'official' translation, and pointing out any discrepancies—just as I would with RGG translations. I hope that's acceptable ;-)

Seems pretty clear to me that you can place a follower and tunnel chip on the same turn.

Seems pretty clear to me as well.

You place a tunnel chip IN ADDITION (as well as) placing a follower as normal.

Whaleyland, I think you are looking for a problem where none exists?

Probably, but I really don't like being able to do both. You pretty much can never do two things in Carcassonne and it really kills an opportunity to have a conflict if you are allowed to do both in this case. I think I will keep playing with the either/or rules.

I agree that it seems clear to be able to do both, but also that it doesn't make sense that you can.  I'm with the Chief on this one.  I'll probably play either/or too.

Great Khan, please; I haven't been a simple chief since before the Barbarian uprising.  ;)

My appologies your Khan-ness.  ;)