Carcassonne Central

Okay, I stopped work on this for a long time, but here it is:

The Two Towers!! The second installment in the LotR series.

Rules are here: http://www.mediafire.com/?ygd1mwnz0rm

It has the same type of quest tiles as the first one, and so can be combined or kept separate from the previous one.

Tiles:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/LotR2alltiles.jpg)
The Quest Tiles:
1. The Dead Marshes
2. The Black gate
3. Ithilien
4. Henneth Annun
5. Fangorn
6. Edoras
7. Helms Deep
8. Isengard

The other four are new 'gift' tiles. One is a tower, the other three offer pieces of maps, which are similar in some respects to JPutt927's 'Seasons', but affect one player, and players have to 'earn' them.

Some examples:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/lotr2-map-proper3.jpg)

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/lotr2-map-proper2.jpg)

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/lotr2-map-proper.jpg)

The maps are cut up into their respective quarters before the first game, and are built piece by piece during the games.

When this is done, I'll get to work on LotR3- Return of the King (hopefully in a few weeks' time)

Comments?

Constructive critisism anyone? Come on, I know you all want to comment on this...  ;)

Here are my thoughts.  Keep in mind that I've never really seen LotR, and I've not played with your first LotR expansion.

The quest tiles sound cool.  Although limiting where they go sounds like you'd very rarely find tiles that would actually place.  it'd probably be better if they were surrounded by walls that could be placed anywhere like the black tower map tile or the Abbey, or even having one or two of those walls would be cool.  Hmm...That just gave me a new idea for another expansion. ;)

Also, there's no bonus for placing quest tiles.  If the quest tiles are more likely to be harder to place, it seems like you should get an extra point or two for placing one.

As for the gift/map tiles, that's a pretty cool idea as well.  My only concern is that looking at the bonus/flaw stats, it does not make me want to earn those pieces because too many of them are too negative.  I'm seeing two tiles, maybe three, that I'd like to have, but if another player gets them first, then I wouldn't want to try to go for them anymore.  Upon which, I'd suggest maybe making 8 more gifts(2 of each type), otherwise if two road gifts are gone, then you'll know which one is left and you may not want it if you know it's not a good bonus piece.  This way you've still got a chance of getting something random.

And I think the only question I had as far as gameplay goes is can you play meeple on the gift map land tiles when you place them?

Has anyone?  ;)


I don't want them to be too easy to place, because some of them provide massive advantages (e.g. Rivendell from Lotr1 would be 27 points if you could finish the cloister), so it shouldn't matter to much if some can't be played. In a way, the tile itself is worth the placement difficulty.


Okay, I might add another map or two of all-positive things.


No, but the fairy/ tower piece can be played. I'll add that to the rules.

I guess that also brings up the question as to whether you can use magic portal to place a meeple on any unclaimed feature on that tile as well?

I was fordighted and added that to the rules at the same time as before (and also the CoC)

As I promised:

http://www.mediafire.com/?oa0tldnlljl

And the new maps:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/lotr2-map-proper4.jpg)

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/lotr2-map-proper5.jpg)

No comments anyone?

Hi, sorry but I´m having some hard time understanding the maps rules, let me see if I got it right:

To get the corner there has to be a line of 5 tiles orthogonally. Do this tiles need to share the same feature than in the gift-tile map? or any configuration will work as long as they are orthogonal and interrupted for that side? For this 5 tiles line, do the gift-tile map counts itself?

Which player draws the map corner? the one who places the fifth tile orthogonally with the map tile? or the one who originally placed the map tile?

Once you get a corner of the map, the bonus apply to all those features, no matter where you place them?

I know that you cant have two maps of the same feature, bu if you draw a really bad corner like -3 point per cloister/shrine, can you try to draw a new map from that type to change it for the previous one?

Also if you draw the -7 points corner, I think nobody will try to complete the map voluntary. Or at the end of the game the center of the map is scored, even if not completed? this way players with negative corners would be forced to get more corners.

Sorry again for asking so much, but want to get this right. I know that for the creator everything makes perfect sense, but for the rest of the people things cant be so clear.

Answers bolded.

Hi, sorry but I´m having some hard time understanding the maps rules, let me see if I got it right:

To get the corner there has to be a line of 5 tiles orthogonally. Do this tiles need to share the same feature than in the gift-tile map?
No, any five (or more) tiles

 or any configuration will work as long as they are orthogonal and interrupted for that side?
Yes, but I don't know what you mean by interrupted- there can be five or more tiles, but there can be no gaps between the first five.

 For this 5 tiles line, do the gift-tile map counts itself?
No

Which player draws the map corner? the one who places the fifth tile orthogonally with the map tile? or the one who originally placed the map tile?
The person who placed the fifth tile (although, if the gift tile already has five tiles on one side when the tile is placed, then the person who placed the gift tile gets that corner.

Once you get a corner of the map, the bonus apply to all those features, no matter where you place them?
Yes, it applies to all of that particular feature.

I know that you cant have two maps of the same feature, bu if you draw a really bad corner like -3 point per cloister/shrine, can you try to draw a new map from that type to change it for the previous one?
No, you are stuck with it.

Also if you draw the -7 points corner, I think nobody will try to complete the map voluntary. Or at the end of the game the center of the map is scored, even if not completed?
No, only a complete map centre is scored. However, the average of all the centres is positive, so there would hopefully be numbers large enough to cancel out the seven, but that would depend on luck.
 this way players with negative corners would be forced to get more corners.

Sorry again for asking so much, but want to get this right. I know that for the creator everything makes perfect sense, but for the rest of the people things cant be so clear.

I'll try to add all of this into the next version of the rules. I'd also like to mention that the +0.5 follwer strength only applies once per feature, not per follower, which might be unclear. I'll add this also.

cool, that helps a lot.

Think I have it crystal clear now  ;D

(http://gwommy.homestead.com/files/purplesmilethumbsup.gif)

I apologise for the delays getting to v0.3- I'm having a few... issues with Word. The top few cm seem to be chopped off the page when I make it a pdf- which I can't seem to fix. I'll keep trying.

It seems to be fixed now; now open to more reviews, 0.3:

 http://www.mediafire.com/?mwymzlhj0jm

Comments (and I'm trying to be concise, but I think I've failed :( ):

1. Please do remember to include the bee trade good token with the tiles - you'll also need to include that in the description of the extra pieces and the preparation.  Credit also needs to be given to wellidesigns for the image on those tiles.
2. Fangorn's acorns - do they give the bonus points when the forest is scored?
3. Suggested that a picture of a tower piece be used on the gift tower tile instead of the tower foundation so that it isn't too confusing.
4. Could you explain "orthogonal" in a footnote the first time it is used?  Non-english (or people who do not speak English as a first langugage) speakers might not be able to understand that.
5. To avoid confusion, it might be best to indicate/label all fan-made expansions as such with the prefix "fan-made" (e.g. wells and lavender fields under the Ithilien description doesn't have this adjective)

With Your comments absorbed, 0.4:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mylyzndjozt

LOL.  Those aren't Acorn tokens.  Those are forest guild icons and they give bonus points to the forest in the same way the blue-and-white shields give to the cities.

Fan-made as an adjective is still missing for Helm's deep, Isengard and the tower gift tile sections.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say in the Ithilien section "The fan-made well and lavender fields used in this tile are normal" - as opposed to being abnormal?

Very minor, probably don't need the period at the end in the extra piece description

For the gift-tile map description, the 'three' should now be 'five'.

 :-X I really should proofread my expansions...

anyway, here is 0.5:

http://www.mediafire.com/?h1mmzqhmzye

Sorry, I still have a few more questions.

Fangorn: I'm still confused about Fangorn's acorns.  Do they give the extra points as per the Enchanted Forest rules?
Edoras: The letter I after the "." needs to be capitalised.
Helm's Deep: (should there be an apostrophe on the name?) Are the icons ignored if only 1 of either Cathar/Siege and 'granaries & reservoirs' are used?  The text seems to suggest that the icons only have an effect if both of the expansions are used.
Isengard: Does it have to be connected to at least one tile, or can it truly be played anywhere on the board, disconnected from the other tiles?

Yes.


I'll fix that...


Yes, there is an apostrophe (thanks for pointing that out), no, only the icon/ expansion not being used is ignored.


Technically, the board is the tiles, so to be on the board would mean with the tiles. I think it should be obvious, but I'll reword that.

Any more corrections before 0.6?

Apparently no more comments yet, so here is 0.6: http://www.mediafire.com/?dimdd3dj2rz

Hopefully not too many more edits...

Only a couple edits, but mostly questions to clarify some things:

==Place a Tile
"From then on, each quest tile must be placed in the direction the arrow on the previous quest tile is pointing to, i.e. if the last quest tile to be placed was pointing to the left, the next quest tile must be placed somewhere directly to the left of that tile."
-?-Is this saying that the next quest tile is placed at the end of the same row or column in the direction of the arrow on the last quest tile played?

"If a quest tile may not be placed there, it must be placed orthogonally to the previous quest tile."
-?-Does this mean it can be placed anywhere as long as it is in the same row or column as the last quest tile played?  Or only orthogonally adjacent to the previous quest tile?

"This tile is the last quest tile to be played. The next quest tile drawn must be somewhere in line with where the arrow is pointing."
-"If this tile was the last quest tile player, then the next quest tile drawn must be placed in the same row(or column) to the direction of the arrow." 

==Isengard
"This tile may be placed anywhere (doesn’t have to be surrounded on all sides),"
-?-This tile can be placed anywhere so it doesn't have to follow the quest rules?  Or do you mean that sides of the tile does not have to match the sides of the tile(s) that it is placed next to?

"as long as it touches at least one tile on it’s side ."
-"It's" should be "its"

==Gift Map Tiles
"These tiles have four sides; city, road, field, field with cloister."
-"field, and field  with cloister."

Answers bolded.

Only a couple edits, but mostly questions to clarify some things:

==Place a Tile
"From then on, each quest tile must be placed in the direction the arrow on the previous quest tile is pointing to, i.e. if the last quest tile to be placed was pointing to the left, the next quest tile must be placed somewhere directly to the left of that tile."
-?-Is this saying that the next quest tile is placed at the end of the same row or column in the direction of the arrow on the last quest tile played?

Yes, it does not have to be next to the tile, just in the same direction.

"If a quest tile may not be placed there, it must be placed orthogonally to the previous quest tile."
-?-Does this mean it can be placed anywhere as long as it is in the same row or column as the last quest tile played?  Or only orthogonally adjacent to the previous quest tile?

Orthogonally anywhere, not just next to it.

"This tile is the last quest tile to be played. The next quest tile drawn must be somewhere in line with where the arrow is pointing."
-"If this tile was the last quest tile player, then the next quest tile drawn must be placed in the same row(or column) to the direction of the arrow."

I don't understand your use of the word 'player'?

==Isengard
"This tile may be placed anywhere (doesn’t have to be surrounded on all sides),"
-?-This tile can be placed anywhere so it doesn't have to follow the quest rules?  Or do you mean that sides of the tile does not have to match the sides of the tile(s) that it is placed next to?

It still obeys the quest tile rule, but it does not have to match the tiles next to it (in fact it can't match as there is to other tile like it)

"as long as it touches at least one tile on it’s side ."
-"It's" should be "its"

==Gift Map Tiles
"These tiles have four sides; city, road, field, field with cloister."
-"field, and field  with cloister."

I shall fix the rest of these for 0.7

Sorry I haven't been more helpful.  I can't open the files at work.  I'm sure you'd doing a fine job though!  ;)

Oooops, I meant "played".  I should have spell checked my own spell checking. (http://gwommy.homestead.com/files/PurpleSmileTongue.gif)

Here is the latest (hopefully among the last) versions, 0.7: http://www.mediafire.com/?wmnz2z5djom

If there are no more corrections by tomorrow this will become v1.0...

I apologise for the triple-post, but here it is, v1.0 with rules, tiles and tokens included: http://www.mediafire.com/?1uueiyiowzd

Once this is passed I can resume work on Lotr3.

I only skimmed over the rules this time, but it looks good to me.  Although, there were many files in the zip folder that loaded as 0 KB in size and I could not find the map tiles.

 :-X

I'll have to fix those (and I completely forgot about the maps)

Here it is, complete with maps: http://www.mediafire.com/?lykmbxvwuyn

Not sure about the other files you mentioned, when I checked there were only two files: rules, and tiles. Hopefully this should be fixed now.

Now on public downloads.  I'll also put up a tile montage when it's made :)

I tried downloading this today and while the rule sheet comes out fine the tiles themselves are not very high quality.  Is there a better version of the tiles I can download that is clear?

Try the word version... it looked clearer when I checked http://www.mediafire.com/?us8h82lh5gwqi6u

Thanks Meepleeater.

Hmm... should I update the public downloads then?

I tried it on two different computers and it opens slightly 'fuzzy' on both.  If it doesn't appear that way when you open it perhaps its another problem, but if it does then perhaps it does need to be re-uploaded.

Oh, and I use the non mac file that is there.

I need a to do list… *sigh*

I guess I'll have to take the word file and convert it to a better PDF version at some stage and then upload it.

Keyword: BlueDog <-- for me to do a search later on to pick up things on my to do list...