Carcassonne Central

I can drive the idea process, but somebody else will have to do the graphics. The good news is that there are some excellent tile scans from AotC on BGG, so we just need somebody who can draw a river in somewhat of the same style. The objective is 12 river tiles with the same configurations as regular Carcassonne. The only difference will be two lakes instead of a spring and a lake. Actually, we might want the Dead Sea to be two tiles for proper scaling. Considering the size of the temple graphics, it might not be feasible to fit one alongside a river without making the river look bizarre, so perhaps the cloister/river tile could be ditched for a two-tile Dead Sea.

Rules are going to be same as River for original Carc, so I won't bother typing them out.

Hmm... thinking about accuracy makes me wonder if all the curved river tiles should be changed to straight. This would make it more boring, but the real river is pretty much straight north to south.

True, but I think under the circumstances, it might be appropriate to overlook that fact.  Unless... dare I say, we call it something else.  ???

I would prefer to keep the curved river tiles over changing the name. The Jordan River is too much of a landmark.

I do not see a major problem with a meandering Jordan river, although it runs north to south, it does meander quite a bit in places. However, calling it by another name is not the way to go... keep to the Jordan river!

You could always invoke some slightly different rules to discourage 'long U' turns.

I agree, the name would be much better kept.  I think if there were an even number of tiles with curved river secions, either 2 or 4, than it could end up straight.  If there were three, it would eventually take a 90 turn.

In the interest of moving this further ahead, I've done up the rules:
http://www.mediafire.com/?twhtzdojmoh (http://www.mediafire.com/?twhtzdojmoh)

I made another attempt at the tiles, but I still suck at graphics.

This is my quick attempt at the river tile:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AOTCriver1.jpg)

That looks pretty good to me.  I think you're hired!  ;D

w/ extra embellishment:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AOTCriver1-2.jpg)

I'm happy to do the rest (after LotR3 and aquaducts) if you want me to.

Oooh, nice river. My only recommendation is to blur the river just a bit because the banks look a little sharp. I love AotC and would totally play with this expansion, although getting spare tiles is pretty much impossible now.

Ok I smoothed out the edges a bit:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AOTCriver1-3.jpg)

Yup, I like that better. Thank you!

btw, it doesn't matter if finding spare tiles is impossible- as the river, it would have a different back anyway. Just use blank carcassonne tiles (if you have any).

If someone scans the tile backs, you could make those too.

This one jumped the queue, and so here are the 12 tiles (tile distribution isn't exactly the same as the original river): 1 lake starting tile, 9 middle river tiles, 2 ending-lake tiles.

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AOTCallriver.jpg)

Oooh, they are beautiful! I am totally going to print these out when I get the chance. I'll have to tack them on to regular Carc tiles but, as was said above, they get played first anyway. I especially find the double-length lake cool. It's like our own little Dead Sea (Salt Sea)/Sea of Galilee (depending on the geographic location of Jerusalem, that is). My only critique, and I assure you it is minor, is that the contrast again seems a little strong on the 3rd through 6th tiles. The banks of the river just look dark for some reason. Again maybe a bit of blurring would help. The rest look great. Good job.

So, any ideas for a City of Jerusalem expansion? Preferably one that doesn't copy the mechanics of the City of Carcassonne, since I hate that expansion more than the Catapult even.

Hopefully these are a bit better (and yes, I think the 2 tile lake is my favourite part too):

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AOTCallriver-1.jpg)

No, I have no ideas for the Jerusalem expansion, although I did just re-discover some other AotC tiles that I'd forgotten I was working on: Market towns (inns/ cathedrals) and a three-way road plus a few other combinations.

Thats awsome.  Can you make it a pdf for printing to size.

Here they are, finished, pdf-ed, correct size and ready to print: http://www.mediafire.com/?zeij0jwfthn

EDIT: Are there going to be rules with these? If so, might I suggest that there is a no u-turn at all (not just immediate) rule, so that the river should flow pretty much noth-south (or the other way around).

Thanks to meepleater for the awesome tile artwork. I've updated the rules to reflect the two Dead Sea tiles. Here is a ZIP file with the rules and tiles together: http://www.mediafire.com/?mnjqzljml5u (http://www.mediafire.com/?mnjqzljml5u). There is indeed a no u-turns ever rule. This is the only significant difference from the original River expansion for Carcassonne.

Is this the first AotC expansion ever?

I don't recall ever hearing of one before this.

I've heard of a number of proposals, but this is the first finished one, I believe. Up for making more? Here are my proposals for other re-makes of standard Carc expansions:

Taverns and Tabernacles (Inns & Cathedrals)
Pheonicians & Lebanese (Traders & Builders)
The Sea of Galilee (The River II)
The City of Jerusalem (The City of Carcassonne)
The Messiah & the Syrian (The King & the Robber Baron)
The Philistines (The Cathars/The Siege)
The Tower of Babel (The Tower)
The Behemoth and the Leviathan (The Princess and the Dragon)
The Temple and the Priest (Abbey and Mayor)
Fireballs from Heaven (The Catapult)
The Samaritans (The Heretics)
The Golden Calf (The Wheel of Fortune)
The Cave (The Tunnel)

My 2 cents on those ideas:

The Sea of Galilee (The River II): The river II (and possibly a river III) are feasible, yet I think maybe another name might be in order, as I think one of the lakes in the Jordan River is already the sea of galilee. Maybe just 'The Jordan River II'. If we do make a second one, we will not need another starting lake, and only one more ending sea (and if the river does end up branching, we have just undone all our ideas for a straight north-south geographically correct Jordan River).

The Samaritans (The heretics): Before we consider any cult expansions, we must remember that there is no equivalent of a cloister in AotC. Temples function very differently. the same would go for any other cloister expansions. (Even the Cathedral in the City of Carcassonne) would not be adaptable.

The Behemoth and the Leviathan (The Princess and the Dragon): I believe the Leviathan was thought to be a sea monster (from the ancient fear of the sea). It would be hard to imagune a sea monster crawling around in the middle of a desert.

Fireballs from Heavan (The Catapult): You must be joking...

Indeed, the titles were the main focus, not necessarily the intent of the expansions. Without cloisters, there are many problems in adapting expansions. Abbeys lose some of their purpose, heretics are rather worthless or at least must be changed, and the river cannot branch which makes it rather restricted (I forgot that you already included the SoG as one of the ends of the river; the starting "source" I assume).

I still think there is potential, though. The Samaritans (the descendants of northern Israelites that married in and bred with ethnic Syrians and other Assyrian captives) practiced a poor version of Judaism after their conquest and were generally known as idol-worshipers even before that time. Perhaps counter temples could still exist, with much the same function as shrines in regular Carc.

True, I forgot that Leviathan was a sea creature. Unless a Great Sea expansion were made, I think we'd have to restrict ourselves to Behemoth.

Fireballs from Heaven was rather based on the plague of Egypt idea with a bit of falling sky thrown in. I mean, how better to have fire from heaven than fireballs launched from the Catapult? It's mostly a joke, but if the Catapult were adapted for whatever terrible reason, fireballs are the most logical result.

If we're coming up with good AotC expansions, it might be best not to simply copy the carc ones, but to create new ideas that bring out the themes and different mechanics for AotC. I'm sure that many of the carc expansions could be successfully adapted, but something new would be nice too. (I guess I can't really talk, having just helped to adapt the river).

I'm there with you. When I create Carc expansions, I like to adapt themes from other Carc games (Hunters & Gatherers comes to mind). But yes, new ideas that focus on the Books of Judges and 1 Samuel are probably key for Ark of the Covenant since that is the time period of the game. I'm with you on that point. Still, I liked the Jordan River expansion. I feel it is necessary. Perhaps you could make a Jericho tile to start down the path of conquest.

I agree with Whaley that we should focus on the correct time period rather than just trying to adapt every Carc expansion to fit. For example, a logical expansion would be High Places, which would have some sort of negative impact. Perhaps they function opposite to the Prophet meeple?

However, City of Jerusalem would be a good expansion, possibily with different mechanics to make it appeal to more people. I also like the Philistines, whether it's the same as Cathars or something along the lines of the barbarians from Catan.

I realize there isn't really a good spot in the downloads section for this, but could somebody make a place and post this? I'm hoping that we'll be doing more AotC expansions.

I think the rules need to show the sea of galilee tile and the dead sea tiles.  Also, the 180º rule could do with a graphic example.  I'm sure meepleater would be up to the tast of doing these images :)

Nice to see the forums are back up. How are these images:

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AotCex2.jpg)

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/AotCex1.jpg)

Sorry about the white backgrounds...

Thanks, I've updated the rules document:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tmzumqjeju2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?tmzumqjeju2)

Thanks.  It's now on the Other Spin-Offs page for download.  Merit points given out :)

Good job guys.  Thanks for the nod.  :)